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Jack Krebs
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 796
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 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Good post, Robert. I really think this line is important, so I'll repeat it. 
| Quote: | | It also seems to me that we'd be much better off (for the sake of these discussions) in *not* defending a "position" (which only causes people to dig their heels in deeper), but to understand the other person's interests, and then compare them to our own. |
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lcraig
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if comparing others' interests to our own is the solution, though I agree with the other two points.
If "the others' interests" are all about creating an American theocracy, then we have nothing in common. We may go about explaining how the Founders specific did NOT want a state religion, etc., etc., but when one is motivated by the fear of hellfire and encouraged by misguided preachers, s/he is not likely to listen to or converse rationally with someone who s/he has already decided is an "infidel" or minion of Satan (simply because s/he doesn't believe in the same religion).
On the other hand, one thing "we" might have in common with "them" is the desire for our children to be successful in life. The future (and even the present) growth in this country is in biochemistry, biology and bioinformatics (Did I just make that word up??). In other words, all children need to learn real biology in order to take the jobs that will be available. |
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rmadison
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 877
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| lcraig wrote: | | If "the others' interests" are all about creating an American theocracy, then we have nothing in common. |
Don't be so sure. For example...
- You pointed out their children. Do they want their kids being taught some other religion at school? (Hell no they don't!)
- Would they be concerned if it wasn't *their* theocratic views which became the law of the land? (Damn straight they would!)
See, I think what we (us non-theocratic types) tend to do is lump all of "them" into a single, cohesive group. They ain't. And when we do that, we fail to recognize that not *all* Christians (for example) believe the same things about Christianity. If you think there is friction now (as we've seen with the "Ed's Team vs "Dawkins Team" discussion) you ain't seen nothin yet! Just wait until the Pat Robertsons, Phill Kline's, etc start positioning themselves to sit atop the theocratic throne. They'll rip each other to shreds for power.
The theocrats desire for control is also a huge weakness to them. They *all* want it, but they can't *all* have it. |
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lcraig
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Good points, Robert. I think the would-be theocrats think the same way Phillip Johnson thinks: Let's not argue about the reality of Genesis now. Let's work together to destroy Darwinism first, and then we can discuss it.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend -- until we win. Then my friend becomes my mortal enemy. I would like to see the melee among YECs, OECs and IDers if they ever DID win. Whoo-ee! |
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